Asking a Sri Lankan Buddhist Elder: What is the Self in the Age of Social Media?
Original (Japanese): スリランカ仏教の長老に聞く、SNS時代の自己とはなにか？ | CINRA | EN | 中文
スリランカ仏教の長老に聞く、SNS時代の自己とはなにか？
2021.05.27 Thu
Sponsored by 『TRANSREALITYSHOW 0.2: FOR THE PLACE FUZZY AND NEW』
- Interview / Text / Edit: 佐々木鋼平
- Photography: 玉村敬太
Interview: What Is the “Self” in the Age of Social Media?
Masato Yamaguchi is an artist who sublimates questions of identity in the digital and internet age into contemporary artworks. In recent years, he has named the sense of reality felt in so-called “virtual” realms—images proliferating on social media, VTubers, virtual idols—“Transreality,” and has made it the central theme of his practice.
Underlying these activities are Buddhist concepts such as “impermanence (mujō)” and “emptiness (kū).” While creating works on Transreality, Yamaguchi found himself drawn to early Buddhism.
This time, we hosted a conversation between Yamaguchi and Ven. Alubomulle Sumanasara, a senior monk of Sri Lankan Theravāda Buddhism, which inherits the current of early Buddhism. Bold statements emerged—“There is no such thing as a fixed self,” “If a self exists at all, it exists only for a moment.” The exchange ranges beyond art to probe the very nature of reality.
What value does art have from the viewpoint of early Buddhism?
Interviewer: To jump right in—did the Buddha ever speak about artistic expression or aesthetic beauty?
Ven. Sumanasara: He did. There is a passage praising a skilled musician who played before the Buddha: “Your song and the instrument are in perfect harmony; the sounds do not hinder each other.”
But merely venting one’s emotions is like excretion—it has no meaning.
What matters is whether those who encounter the expression gain vitality, calm, or learning. That’s where meaning lies, the Buddha says. When you read Shakespeare, you still learn something, don’t you?
Yamaguchi: Do you look at art yourself?
Ven. Sumanasara: Tarō Okamoto’s work The Chair That Refuses to Be Sat On, exhibited at the Taro Okamoto Memorial Museum in Aoyama, is a masterpiece. A chair that refuses to be sat on—(laughs).
I also like Michelangelo’s Pietà, though I’ve never seen it in person. It’s a quintessential Christian motif—the Virgin Mary cradling the executed Christ.
The fingertips of Mary and the skin of Jesus feel lifelike; it’s astonishing that it’s carved from marble. Mary’s expression mixes gentleness and sorrow in a way that stirs something indescribable.
Ven. Sumanasara: In European religious painting, Madonna-and-Child images are perennial favorites. They convey gentleness and loving care, don’t they?
As religious art they carry many meanings, but I sense a message: “Existence does not arise by itself; someone must tenderly protect and raise it.” That, to me, is beauty.
If I may nitpick, European depictions of women tend to skew too young. Even in the Pietà, Mary appears younger than Christ! (laughs)
People cling too tightly to “youth.” Enjoying youth is fine, but aging also has its virtues. Pardon my bluntness. (laughs)
Yamaguchi: Even online today, filters to make oneself look cuter are popular, and features that blend with animation or CG are everywhere. Perhaps this longing for youth is a culture common to humanity that’s persisted for centuries. (laughs)
Early Buddhism is not “religion” but “science”
Yamaguchi: I became interested in early Buddhist ideas such as “emptiness” (all phenomena arise dependently and lack fixed essence) and “impermanence” (everything is in constant change) while working on Transreality.
That led me to Theravāda Buddhism in Sri Lanka—and to you.
I’m still a novice, but could you explain, briefly, how Sri Lankan Theravāda differs from the forms of Buddhism commonly practiced in Japan?
Ven. Sumanasara: In broad strokes, Buddhism began in northern India around the 5th century BCE and later branched into many schools.
In Japan, people often associate Buddhism with funerary rites in temples—that’s the Mahāyāna stream that came via China. Jōdo-shū, Jōdo Shinshū, etc.
By contrast, Sri Lankan Theravāda is the southern transmission. It preserves teachings recorded in Pāli—the language rooted in everyday ancient Indian speech—and is considered closest to the earliest canon.
Yamaguchi: That’s why it’s seen as closer to the Buddha’s original teachings.
When I read Osamu Tezuka’s manga Buddha, I was struck that Buddhism wasn’t originally a “religion,” but more like a science or philosophy of the mind. I felt Theravāda preserves something close to that.
Ven. Sumanasara: Yes—though I don’t think sectarian differences matter much. Scriptures and ceremonies differ, but it’s like eating with chopsticks or a fork—no need to fight. Difference is fine. (laughs)
Yamaguchi: Lately, mindfulness—rooted in Vipassanā—has surged in the West. Do you sense a shift?
Ven. Sumanasara: Mindfulness and Vipassanā are practical answers to “How should humans live?” They are universal across eras and cultures. Not mystical—highly logical methods. That’s why they travel.
Yamaguchi: Exactly. Unlike theistic religion with an all-powerful God, early Buddhism doesn’t feel that way—so it felt approachable.
“All value is, in the end, collectively imagined.”
Yamaguchi: I’ve been creating works under the theme of “Transreality”—a reality beyond (or alongside) reality.
With digital technology and the internet, we spend more time with “virtual personalities”: AI assistants, robots, VTubers, idols.
Are these “virtual” beings truly unreal? What are the emotions people feel toward them—even romantic ones?
If value, recognition, and presence aren’t anchored in a firm substance, can we say an individual’s own existence is solid?
That question led me to frame a world where digital data and physical space, online and offline, intermingle—positively—as “Transreality.”
Ven. Sumanasara: I saw news about a purely digital artwork fetching a huge price in America.
Yamaguchi: Yes—Beeple’s digital piece sold for about 7.5 billion yen, authenticated on a blockchain. How do you view the value of a non-physical digital artwork?
Ven. Sumanasara: What makes a gemstone valuable? Hand a diamond to a child and they might put it in their mouth or throw it away. So who decides “value”?
Yamaguchi: Because many people want it?
Ven. Sumanasara: Exactly. Value isn’t equal to substance; it’s a shared “imagination.” Artworks are, materially, pigment or marble, right?
Yamaguchi: Right.
Ven. Sumanasara: Value arises when people share the same imagination. Without that shared frame, there is no value. The Buddha said phenomena arise and cease due to conditions; things have no inherent meaning or value.
Yamaguchi: I see. (laughs)
Ven. Sumanasara: That’s not negative. As an artist, you still need materials—paint, stone, data—to communicate. If your work benefits others, that’s enough. Don’t obsess over “the value of digital art.” (laughs)
The world is, in a sense, a tapestry of illusions
Yamaguchi: Your point—that value is a mental construct—really clicks. Whether AI assistants, virtual idols, or physical objects, value arises only in the mind that recognizes them.
Ven. Sumanasara: Yes. In fact, the very act of recognition is a fleeting illusion.
Yamaguchi: How so?
Ven. Sumanasara: If I say “long,” you grasp it without knowing an exact measure because you contrast it with an image of “short.”
Yamaguchi: Right.
Ven. Sumanasara: “This room,” “this building”—you understand them by distinguishing them from other rooms or buildings. You’re a man because women exist. Identity is comparative.
And the “mind” making those comparisons keeps changing—cells replace themselves, memories overwrite. You ten years ago and now are not the same.
Yamaguchi: So recognition matches ambiguous phenomena to concepts in the mind, and we assume “it exists.” That connects to emptiness and impermanence: things arise dependently and are ever-changing. Does something “exist” only when attended to?
Ven. Sumanasara: Yes. Phenomena only “temporarily exist” in recognition—and the recognizer, too, is temporary. In early Buddhism we avoid the word “exist”; we say “temporary existing.”
Like a candle flame: conditions change and it returns to air. Everything is “Temporary Existing.”
山口真人『FEELIN' GROOVY』2021年
“If there is a self, it exists only in this moment, in this place.”
Yamaguchi: So even this very conversation is “temporary existing.”
Ven. Sumanasara: Exactly. This room, you, me—temporary. When you step outside, you’re another person. (laughs)
Yamaguchi: True. (laughs)
Ven. Sumanasara: That’s why I carry no business card and avoid fixed self-introductions. If there’s a “self,” it exists only here-and-now.
Yamaguchi: Then titles and labels are unnecessary—they don’t move.
Ven. Sumanasara: Clinging to an absolute “me” is dangerous. When reality violates that image, anger and jealousy arise. Better to meet everyone simply as “human.” It’s freer.
Yamaguchi: That’s exactly where I wanted to get. My Transreality works with blinking LEDs try to express that momentary recognition.
Ven. Sumanasara: Impermanence is fascinating, isn’t it?
Yamaguchi: It is. (laughs)
Ven. Sumanasara: Because everything is impermanent, nothing fully “exists.” Yet without impermanence, music couldn’t exist. There is nothing truly static—or truly sustainable.
Yamaguchi: A powerful note to end on.
Ven. Sumanasara: Progress means not resisting impermanence. Staying put is degeneration. Unfortunately, many people love the status quo. (laughs)
Even in academia, young researchers curry favor instead of challenging old ideas. Be bold! (laughs)
(All laugh.)
Event Information
TRANSREALITYSHOW 0.2: FOR THE PLACE FUZZY AND NEW
March 26 (Fri) – March 28 (Sun), 2021
Artists: Hiro Sugiyama / Masato Yamaguchi / NAKAMITSUKI / Yuma Kishi / Telepo – Dial / Akira Motomiya
Admission: Free
Website: http://www.transreality.io/
Profiles
Ven. Alubomulle Sumanasara — Senior monk of Sri Lankan Theravāda Buddhism. Born 1945; ordained at 13. Came to Japan in 1980. Teaches early Buddhist doctrine and Vipassanā through the Japan Theravāda Buddhist Association. Author of numerous books, including Freedom from Anger. Association: 日本テーラワーダ仏教協会
访谈：在社交媒体时代，“自我”究竟是什么？
艺术家山口真人将数字与互联网时代的“身份/自我”问题转化为当代艺术作品。近年来，他把人们在所谓“虚拟”领域所感到的真实——例如在社交媒体上扩散的图像、VTuber 与虚拟偶像——称为“跨现实（Transreality）”，并以此为创作核心。
其背后的副主题，是佛教中的“无常”与“空”。在以“跨现实”为题持续创作的过程中，山口开始对“早期佛教”产生兴趣。
本次我们邀请承袭早期佛教传统的斯里兰卡上座部佛教长老・阿鲁博穆勒·斯马纳萨拉法师（Ven. Alubomulle Sumanasara）与山口展开对谈。对话中不乏劲爆观点——“根本没有所谓固定的自我”“若说有自我，也只在一瞬间成立”。内容越出艺术范畴，直指世界本质。
从早期佛教看：艺术的价值是什么？
采访者： 请直入主题——佛陀是否谈过艺术表达或审美之美？
斯马纳萨拉： 谈过。经典中赞叹过一位在佛陀面前演奏的音乐家：“你的歌声与乐器完美和谐，彼此不相妨碍。”
但若只是把情绪发泄出来，那就像排泄物，没有意义。
关键在于：接触到作品的人，是否能获得活力、安宁或启发。佛陀认为，那才是“意义”所在。读莎士比亚，至今仍能得到学习，不是吗？
山口： 您平时会看艺术吗？
斯马纳萨拉： 冈本太郎在青山纪念馆展出的《拒绝被坐的椅子》是杰作——明明是椅子却拒绝让人坐（笑）。
还有米开朗基罗的《圣殇》，虽未亲见也很喜欢：圣母怀抱被处死的基督——典型的基督教母题。
圣母指尖、基督皮肤的质感仿佛真实，竟由大理石雕成，令人惊讶。圣母表情里温柔与悲伤交织，让人动容。
斯马纳萨拉： 欧洲长期流行“圣母子”绘画，也能感到“温柔”“慈爱”。
作为宗教艺术它当然有诸多含义，但我读到的讯息是：“存在并非自发生起；必须有人温柔守护、养育。”这就是我的“美”。
吐槽一句：欧洲女性形象常常画得过于年轻。《圣殇》里好像圣母都比基督还年轻呢（笑）。
人们对“年轻”执念太深。当然欣赏年轻也好，但增长年龄也有人类的美。失礼了（笑）。
山口： 如今网络上也流行用滤镜把自己“变可爱”，或与动画/CG合成。对“年轻”的向往，也许是延续数百年的共通文化吧（笑）。
早期佛教不是“宗教”，更接近“科学”
山口： 在创作“跨现实”时，我遇到了佛教“空”（诸法因缘所生、无自性）与“无常”（万物常变）。
因此找到了斯里兰卡上座部，也就认识了您。
虽然我还很外行，但能否简要谈谈上座部与日本常见佛教的差异？
斯马纳萨拉： 佛教约于公元前5世纪起源于印度北部，后来分化成诸多宗派。
日本人熟悉的多为经由中国传入的“大乘佛教”——寺院、葬礼等。净土宗、净土真宗皆属此系。
上座部则是“南传”，保存以巴利语记录的最古老经典，因此被视为更接近佛陀最初教说。
山口： 所以更靠近佛陀本怀。
我读手冢治虫《佛陀》时很震惊：佛教起初并非“宗教”，更像面向自心的科学/哲学。上座部似乎保留了这种面貌。
斯马纳萨拉： 是的。不过我认为宗派差异不必在意。经典、仪式有不同，就像用筷子还是用叉子——不必争执，有差异也很好（笑）。
山口： 近年以美国为中心，正念（源自内观）大热。您感到变化吗？
斯马纳萨拉： 正念与内观，是“人应如何活”的实践方法，普世且合乎逻辑，并不神秘，因此能在不同文化中传播。
山口： 与其说是神的超越，不如说是人可实践的方法，这点让人亲近。
“一切价值，归根结底都是共同的想象。”
山口： 我以“跨现实”为题创作——可理解为“现实彼岸/并行之现实”。
随着数字技术与互联网发展，人们与“虚拟人格”的相处时间增多——AI 助手、机器人、VTuber、虚拟偶像等。
这些被视为“虚像”的存在真的不“真实”吗？人与之互动时产生的情感又是什么？甚至有人把它们当作恋爱对象。
若价值、认知、存在感并非扎根于坚固实体，那么我们各自的“自我”又能被称为坚固的吗？
因此我提出“跨现实”这个正向的框架，去理解数字数据与物理空间、线上与线下的交融。
斯马纳萨拉： 前阵子看到新闻：美国一件纯数字艺术品以天价成交。
山口： 是的，美国艺术家 Beeple 的数字作品约以75亿日元成交，用区块链证明“唯一原件”。您如何看这种“非实体”的艺术价值？
斯马纳萨拉： 宝石的价值是什么？把钻石交给小孩，可能塞进嘴里或随手丢掉。那么“价值”是谁决定的？
山口： 因为很多人“想要”它？
斯马纳萨拉： 正是。价值并不等于实体，而是人们共同的“想象”。艺术作品在物质上不过是颜料或大理石而已，不是吗？
山口： 没错。
斯马纳萨拉： 当人们共享同一种想象，价值才出现；若无法共享，就谈不上价值。佛陀说，诸法因缘生灭，本无自性与意义。
山口： 原来如此（笑）。
斯马纳萨拉： 这并不消极。作为艺术家，你仍需借由颜料、石材或数据传达表达；若能给他人带来良好影响，这就够了。别过分在意“数字艺术的价值”（笑）。
世界，在某种意义上是“错觉”的编织
山口： “价值是心中构成的”这一点我非常认同。无论 AI 助手、虚拟偶像，还是现实中的物，都只在认知者的心中生起价值。
斯马纳萨拉： 进一步说，“认知”本身也是暂时的错觉。
山口： 怎么理解？
斯马纳萨拉： 例如我说“长”，你虽不知道具体长度，却能理解，因为心里有“短”作对照。
山口： 明白。
斯马纳萨拉： “这间房”“这栋楼”之所以理解，是通过与其他房、楼区分而来。你之所以被识别为男性，是因为有女性存在。身份皆是比较而生。
而进行比较的“心”也在不断变化——细胞新陈代谢，记忆被更新。十年前的你与现在的你并不相同。
山口： 换言之，人把“暧昧之物”与当下心中的概念比照，于是就以为“它存在”。这与“空/无常”相通：诸法依缘而起、恒常变化。是否意味着：只有在被意识到的一瞬间，事物才“存在”？
斯马纳萨拉： 是的。诸法皆“暂时存在”（Temporary Existing），认知者本人也同样暂时。上座部不说“存在（Exist）”，而说“暂时存在”。
如烛焰：条件变化便复归空气。万象皆然。
山口真人『FEELIN' GROOVY』2021年
“若真有自我，也只在此刻、此地成立。”
山口： 那么我们现在的对谈，也只是“暂时存在”。
斯马纳萨拉： 没错。这间房、你、我——皆是暂时的。走出门你就成了“另一人”（笑）。
山口： 的确（笑）。
斯马纳萨拉： 所以我不带名片，也不做固定式自我介绍。若说有“自我”，它只在当下这一刻、这一处成立。
山口： 如此看来，头衔名片确实无用——它们“不会动”。
斯马纳萨拉： 执著于一个“绝对的我”很危险；当现实不符，那就生起嗔恨嫉妒。把彼此都当“人”相待，反而更自由。
山口： 这正是我想抵达的地方。用LED闪烁来创作，也是在表达“一瞬的认知”。
斯马纳萨拉： “无常”很有趣吧？
山口： 是的（笑）。
斯马纳萨拉： 正因万物无常，所以没有“完全存在”的东西。但若无无常，音乐也无法成立。世上并无真正“静止”或“永续”的事物。
山口： 收尾得很有力量。
斯马纳萨拉： 若说人的进步，就是不与无常作对。停滞不前就是退化。可很多人偏爱现状（笑）。
学界亦然：年轻研究者明知老师的旧观念不对，却只顾讨好以保职位。我想说：大胆去研究吧！（笑）
（众笑）
活动信息
TRANSREALITYSHOW 0.2: FOR THE PLACE FUZZY AND NEW
2021年3月26日（五）– 3月28日（日）
参展艺术家：ヒロ杉山 / 山口真人 / ナカミツキ / 岸祐真 / テレポ - ダイヤル / 本宮曜
费用：免费
官网：http://www.transreality.io/
人物简介
阿鲁博穆勒·斯马纳萨拉 —— 斯里兰卡上座部佛教长老。1945 年生，13 岁出家；1980 年以公费留学生来日。现于日本上座部佛教协会传播早期佛法并指导内观。著作众多，含英文著作 Freedom from Anger。 协会：日本テーラワーダ仏教協会